This week’s guest is your humble host, Alex Ferrari, known for his film making blog and podcast Indie Film Hustle. With his 20 years of experience in the industry Alex dishes the straight line on making it in the film business. He shared his experiences with us as a film maker, making the rounds at every film festival imaginable and why film festivals may or may not be a good idea for film makers. This year he put his money where is his mouth is and shot the micro budget feature film This is Meg starring Jill-Michelle Melean who also co-wrote the film with Alex.
Indie Film Hustle Roots And Why Alex Started the Popular Film Making Blog
Alex talks about escaping Miami to Hollywood and cutting his teeth as an editor. Remember what cutting ¾” tape was like?
He talks about running garage sales as early as the age of 10 and walking around with a wad of cash
Listening, watching, reading for a year Alex studied the business of an online business, creating content and SEO
His rise was quick his content on Indie Film Hustle was resonating because Alex wasn’t afraid to tell filmmakers the truth.
Providing value is his number 1 priority because he was tired of seeing filmmakers get beat up and ripped off in the film industry.
Where do You Find Time To Create That Much Content?
Alex admits he has 150 unpublished blog articles and 50 videos just waiting!
“There’s a lot of time in the day”
Over the course of 2 years he’s learned how to process all of the content efficiently. Alex says he can put together a podcast in 2 to 2.5 hours.
If he didn’t have a family, Indie Film Hustle might be even be bigger.
Alex puts in 10 to 12 hours a day and rarely works weekends. When he does work, Alex says he’s efficient. He stops every day at 6:30.
Ask most high achieving entrepreneurs and they’ll admit what Alex did to us. He says, “I feel like I’m a slacker, I feel like I’m not doing enough. I feel like I could do better, like I could do more.”
How Do You Feel About Film Festivals For Film Makers?
Alex has been to every film festival you can imagine totally upwards of 500 festivals including Sundance.
Quote: “If you’ve never gone through the experience, it’s magical. The first time you go to a festival and see your film projected, it’s the most amazing thing ever.”
When do you that 500 times and spend a lot of money you realize what its worth.
Alex doesn’t like the cost to many film festivals and feels like they are ripping off the film makers.
After spending $1000 on 35 film festivals he learned how to get into festivals for free and his movie Broken ended up in 150.
If you live in a small town, do it every year because it’s the only place you are going to connect with other local filmmakers, producers & investors.
Watch the Interview with Alex Ferrari on YouTube:
Sundance Film Festival: Alex recounts his experience
His first time at Sundance he had just finished Broken and walked around with a laptop asking people if they wanted to watch a movie
Sundance was like Disneyland. He would just take pictures with every celebrity he could.
Name dropping time!!
What is your opinion of The American Film Market?
This is Meg is going to be screened at The American Film Market
Alex has been to AFM once before but this is the first time he’s heading upstairs with the big boys.
Right now AFM is still the way to do international sales. It’s all about relationships.
Quote: “You can sense that energy when somebody comes up to you and they just want to take and suck from you.”
The bottom line is give more than you get.
Where did the concept for your feature film This is Meg start?
Find out what a scriptment is and why film makers use them.
Alex was tired of waiting for permission to make his first feature film.
He called his co-producer Jill-Michelle Melean and said, “I wanna make a movie and we are gonna do it this way and this is story I want to tell. I wanna tell your story as a comic and actress who is not 21 anymore and who’s been a little famous but is not a household name and what it’s like for you.”
1 week later Jill had a scriptment for This is Meg, 3 days later they locked up the cast and were shooting a few weeks later. This is Meg was shot in 8 days total over 6 weeks.
Alex talks about how much he loved the process because he put absolutely no pressure on himself about the outcome of the film. And never even shot more than 6 to 8 hours.
This is Meg was the most effortless project he’s ever been involved in.
What the trailer for This Is Meg
What was the distribution plan for This is Meg?
Alex admits This is Meg is a dramedy that’s may not be for everyone.
We have wonderful actors that you’ll recognize but we have no bankable stars.
I created a lot of content around the process of making it so I’d be able to sell it to my audience which brings in revenue.
I made a relationship with Distribber to be able to self-distribute the film which can now be seen on Hulu, iTunes, Amazon, YouTube, Google Play & Vudu.
Oddly enough, it sold to China, South Africa and have a pending UK deal. Little by little it’s made some money and was a great proof of concept.
If you don’t have an audience there’s no point in self-distributing with something like Distribber.
Alex made a movie within the resources that he had. A lot of filmmakers become too ambitious too early.
Cinematographer, Valentina Caniglia has worked on over 60 film productions, documentaries, music videos commercial work and more. She is known for her work on the film “The Stand” where her astonishing lighting and camera work caught the attention of American Cinematographer magazine which featured an exclusive article in March 2017 issue.
As a DP (Director of Photography). Valentina is the real deal and brings her positive attitude to her work and life. We discussed the challenges of shooting on location in Palestine to being snowed in in New Jersey. Her eye for coloring and lighting are what makes Valentina’s work unique and why she’s won so many awards. As a female cinematographer her journey to success has not be so easy.
“Pomegranates and Myrrh” winner of the Golden Dagger for Best Cinematography, premiered in USA at Sundance film Festival and received the Audience Award at Doha Tribeca Film Festival handed out by Robert De Niro. “Madeline’s Oil” was the winner of the Best Cinematography award at the Louisiana International Film festival.
“I always adapt at filming each project with versatile visual style that best translates each story’s unique concept into breathtaking moving images that unravel the characters’ state of mind throughout the progression of the storytelling. Cinematography represents a concept of beauty that stands beyond the aesthetic aspects, something more intense that supports, follows and enhances the story where the camera can capture and show the transparency and the awareness of visuals drawn by the emotions.” – Valentina Caniglia
Where did you catch the filmmaking bug?
In reality, my father wanted to be a Director so I took a lot of inspiration from him. Then I realized his dream became mine.
Is film school in Italy difficult to get accepted to?
I didn’t go to film school in Italy. I came to New York after London and majored in film at New York University.
What filmmakers inspire you?
I think it was mostly paintings coming from a country where art is important. There was a lot of influence when I saw these paintings in Italy and all over Europe. I realized I wanted to be a cinematography because I wanted to work with lighting. I wanted to recreate what these artists were doing on the canvas.
How did the film Blindness include your love of art?
Blindness was interesting because it was about a woman who was losing her sight. We had to tell the story with visuals and not many words. The camera was capturing what she was seeing but not very well. It was a long journey because I had to see beyond what we see normally. What I said to the director was sometimes what you don’t see is more powerful than what you do.
I like European film because isn’t a lot of dialogue and there’s more visuals. It’s also nice to see how independent films are being done in the United States as well.
What is your relationship with the lighting crew?
When I decided I wanted to be a DP (director of photography) I made a point to meet all the lighting rental businesses and owners. I knew I really cared about lighting so I wanted to explore how I could get them to give me what I needed and also new equipment that’s becoming available.
It’s also important to say you don’t need a lot of light, you just need the right light to make it work.
How much interaction do you have with the director on set?
We do a lot in pre-production where the director will tell me what he or she wants in terms of mood and movements. I anticipate and interpret what they want while reading the script and translate the words into visuals. I write my notes and compare each scene and character. Sometimes I give each character a color to identify them because I see their personality.
It’s a visual way to tell the story and the director how I see it. During pre-production they have the final say and that’s when they’ll let me know if they like my idea or maybe need to go another way. It’s important to listen to what the director wants.
How important is still photography for setting up your film shoot?
It’s actually very important because I like to capture the moment. Things may look very well lit but sometimes I just observe what’s around me and I just snap it. It depends on the situation as well. If I shoot a documentary I like go and explore right in the moment. To be honest, I’m coming from a culture where everything can be done in the moment and I’m not afraid of that. Basically we live day by day and I like to take this approach to film as well.
Maybe in that moment even though you do a lot of pre-production, it may not work the way you and the director thought. You have to be ready to have a plan B, plan C, and plan D as well. Maybe the actor doesn’t want to do certain things so you just have to come up with an idea.
I shot a movie in Palenstine behind the wall. In a place like that where theres a lot of bombing, I realized to get the story out there you have to think in the moment.
What was the most challenging shoot you had to film?
Every shoot you do is not really difficult because you love what you do. One of the most challenging was definitely another Palestinian film. Not because of the crew but because of the situation. I shot a movie in Italy that was complicated because we shot in Sicily and difficult to get to the location. I shot another movie all in New York called Without Grace that just opened. It was a small crew with an emmy nominated actress Ann Dowd. We shot in Jersey during the winter and it snowed like crazy and couldn’t move it so we were blocked in the apartment we were shooting in. We had to just stop and go home and come back in two days because we couldn’t put up lights or do anything
I always translate the worst into the best. It’s survival. You have a lot of support and never give up because you want to make something good. Even if you have a big budget, it’s not going to be any easier. The producer may be afraid to take more risks.
What award did Madeline’s Oil win at the Louisiana Film Festival?
Madeline’s Oil was a period piece about slavery and racial discrimination. I loved it because we shot all over the fields and in the mud and every swamp in Louisiana after the hurricane. In that moment you will see people were all united including the actors. It’s challenging because you really have to deal with what you have at that time even though we had a bigger budget. The film won Best Cinematography at the Louisiana Film Festival. I’m very happy about it and love Louisiana.
I actually shot another film in Louisiana called The Stand. It was interesting because it was all shot on a bus and there was a terrorist attack with Christians and Muslims all together. They had to make it look like they were all the same people. We shot in Louisiana where it was supposed to look like West Africa. Big fields with dirt roads. I really relied on natural light and worked a lot with mirrors.
I say it was easy but it really was not. Buses are wider in the United States so I thought I could put up a light but I didn’t count on every seat being occupied. I couldn’t put up any light whatsoever and the windows were small. I actually put the mirror on the ceiling creating triangles of light using what I had.
You have to worry when you see the faces of your Gapher, your Key Grip and First AC go pale and they don’t actually know how to tell you the problem. When you see that you start to see there is a problem.
What challenges did you face breaking into the industry?
As a woman cinematographer it’s difficult to break in because especially when I started in 1998, I was one of the few DP’s around. Every time I was on set I was the only woman on set. I had discrimination but I didn’t have much because I also had a lot of people that believed in me and supported me. I’m bothered by women who don’t support each other as men do.
I used to have a big shirt over my shoulder but I’m a boxer and they didn’t know. A lot of women would start to panic wondering if I could do it. If you train it’s not about the strength it’s about the power you have from your legs as well.
What is your go to camera?
I think it really depends on the project. I can’t always say I want to use a particular camera. I do prefer the Alexa. My work is not all the same. Every story calls for a different cinematography style. You have to go with the story. You can use any camera really, it’s about the story.
I shot a TV pilot with Joseph Sikora. I thought I wanted to shoot with an Alexa but I did some tests and showed the director how it looked with a Red anamorphic lense and we just liked that much better.
What is your new film Amytal Therapy about?
The short film I just directed and DP called The Amytal Therapy. It’s about a woman who has a double identity looking for the murderer of a companion.
She’s a psychiatrist, living in New York that spies on her own patients, though the security cameras she’s personally installed in their homes. She knows what they do. She knows what they want. She knows how to stop them.
The good thing is if I wanted to put someone in the darkness I didn’t have to turn around and ask someone. The bad thing is I didn’t have a companion. I really did miss the collaboration between directory and cinematographer though. It’s amazing because you have someone who covers your back. I think my next move I want to continue to be a DP (Director of Photography).
We talk everything movies with blogger and author Clint Harrington of the popular movie blog Clintington on Film. Clint turned his blog into a book called Growing Up Movies where he discusses his experiences growing up with his family watching iconic movies such Ghostbusters. For anyone that grew up in the 80s and 90s, it’s a nostalgic look at movies in an era when family entertainment was accessible. While reading his book you’ll realize how similar your memories of these movies may be and how movies were responsible for bringing the family together.
Interview Highlights with Author Clint Harrington
When Did You Start Clintington on Film?
Started in January 2014
Clint always wanted to be a writer growing up and idolized Stephen King growing up.
He was taken by the story ‘The Body’ which as we all know and love ‘Stand By Me.”
Meeting independent author Matt Russo was a turning point. He said that if you’re going to start a blog and try and develop a platform you have to write about things that you love.
“You have to have a passion behind the things that you love and I gotta tell you guys I love movies.”
Watching Movies With Your Kids
Clint’s son wasn’t even born and he was thinking about what movies to show him
“Maybe 2 months into the pregnancy and I’m already thinking okay, when can I show him E.T., when can we watch the trilogy. I’m probably gonna have to wait on the Godfather a little bit but not too long.”
He’s waiting on Goonies until his son has a bigger group of friends so he can experience it better.
Favorite Movies
I love to quote Mel Brooks when I’m asked about my favorite movies.
I always think of the movies that impacted me and Ghostbusters was that first movie really when I was growing up that was like I finally was allowed to be an adult.
Clint thinks the Ghostbusters reboot wasn’t even close to what the original could be and I think it’s unfair to expect it to be.
“I really like gangster movies but a comedy would have to be in there just because the amount of respect I have for people that attempt comedy. Comedy is so hard to do.
He has a ton of respect for people that are good at comedy. Kevin Smith is one of his favorites.
Blazing Saddles is one his favorite Mel Brooks movies.
For Clint Ghostbusters is 1a and The Godfather is 1b.
Growing Up Movies
Clint grew up in what he likes to call Morman-ville USA. It’s a Southeast Idaho and its land of the Mormons.
He grew up Lutheran which made them the rebels of a town like that.
They wanted to be everything opposite of Mormon, which kind of led to underage drinking every now and then and those kinds of things.
Clint used to criticize his parents for how conservative they were but blogging brings back memories and he realized they weren’t that bad. They let him see a lot of things probably earlier than he should. He saw JAWS at the age of 8.
My Cousin Vinny will be appearing on his blog and if it shows up on my blog he liked it.
He goes on to say actor Fred Gwynne’s (aka Herman Musnster) performance is one of the greatest performances by a supporting actor he’s ever seen.
Marisa Tomei earned the Academy Award. It’s one of the best performances in decades for from a woman.
Clint goes on to praise actor Joe Pesci for his roles in ‘JFK’, ‘My Cousin Vinny’ & ‘Lethal Weapon 2’
“Joe Pesci in ‘Lethal Weapon 2’ I mean they don’t even have an Academy Award for how good that performance was. He stole the show across from Glover and Gibson. He stole the show. Every scene he’s in your like I can’t wait for Pesci to get back into the scene.”
Screenwriting and Being an Indie Author
He wrote a screenplay and I couldn’t find anyone to make it and didn’t think it would ever get made so Clint converted it to a novel.
The novel is called Get Back. It’s a romantic comedy for a coming-of-age adult. He says it’s also about college relationship angst. The lead character is a guy who has been with the same woman for about seven years and then she ups and leaves right before they’re about to graduate. She’s just out of his life like that. He’s coming to terms with how to move on. It’s about loss and how he’s going to get back on with his life basically.
Growing Up Movies is a compilation of the blog Clintington on Film.
He wanted to make the book free but Amazon won’t let you.
The book includes 89 movies from the 80s and earlier films like Butch Cassidy and that he watched with his parents
He’s planning on doing the 90s and that would be called ‘Growing into Movies’.
“I was 13 or 14 in the early 90s and then I later went into college through the 90s. Don’t get me wrong I love the 80s but the 90s for me?! Some of my movies that I have on my top ten from the 90s they’ll always be in my top 10. I probably have 5 movies on that I just watch over and over again. Like ‘Pulp Fiction’ was in ’94 and that changed everything for me.”
Advice on starting a blog
“You have to love what you’re writing about. That passion is going to be that fuel for you to keep going and even I have some nights where I’m like I don’t know if I want to write about that movie just yet and it’s kind of like well I’m trying to do these in order but I’m not ready to do that one yet.”
I held off on the Godfather for a long time because it had to be right. That movie had to be right. But Ghostbusters I jumped in earlier on that one. I wrote til like 4am I was like I’m doing it, I don’t care like I have to say this about this.
Tom Gould is a 30 year veteran of the music scene and has run in the same circles as some of the biggest names in the music business. He has been the front man for the Bossa Nova Beatniks since 1992 and performed all over the world, sharing his musical vision as he continues to release new material. He made the announcement for the release of his latest album, “For the Fun” on our podcast this past week. You can order your copy or download it today on CD Baby. https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bossanovabeatniks12
Tom has been a longtime friend and it was a pleasure to swap old stories with him on the show. We also found out that his music was recently featured in a documentary film entitled Demon Wheels. You can catch it on Netflix or order your copy here: http://www.demononwheels.com/ .
On the show we got an extra special treat when Tom performed three of his songs. Joe got a chance to show off his guitar skills and joined Tom for his final number. “It was an honor to be able to sit in with him and I’m so glad this interview happened” – Joe Kane
You can keep up with the Bossa Nova Beatniks on their website www.bnbeatniks.com.
I’m Joe Kane, I’m Dan Kane and I’m Wayne Heckler and this is the Imperfect Podcast. Be sure to check us out at hecklerkane.com and everywhere on social media. To the bumper!
Alright so we’re back with Tom Gould. He was originally born in Louisville Kentucky and now resides on Long Island New York. He is the head man, the front man, the showrunner for the Bossa Nova Beatniks. Tom thanks for coming.
Tom Gould: I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
HKC: You said you wanted to go right up front and perform a song for us. Let’s get started with some music and then we can talk.
Excellent! Tom, that was awesome for me. I really enjoyed it. I gotta tell you guys, I saw Tom for the first time twenty-some-odd years ago out on the beach in Oyster Bay. I came down with a friend of mine, Brian, who said you got to check out this band. They were out on the pier playing in Oyster Bay and what a cool backdrop of the bay behind you. The sound that was coming out, I was immediately hooked.
Tom Gould: Well thanks. And I have to say before we go too far, is that in 20 years I’ve met thousands of people and I gotta say that Joe and Dan’s parents are two of the nicest people you could ever want to meet. I wanted to say that.
HKC: Thank you. You said nothing about us but our parents are great. Yeah we suck, but our parents are great. Where did they go wrong?
Well I wanted to talk to you a little about your website. It says that you are 17 albums in and releasing a new album soon.
Tom Gould: That’s correct. Actually, Tuesday September 20th is the release date and it’s called “For the Fun”. This album hasn’t even been released yet and I’m already starting three other projects. Largely because as this CD title says, “For the Fun”, that’s really all there is any more in music It’s either you’re having fun doing it and making it or that’s it. The music business is gone. It’s not the same as it’s been. I have a friend who’s a Vice President of Atlantic Records and they say they spend their whole days tracking down the Pirates and there’s no tracking them down.
With the internet, everybody gets everything for free. You sell one CD and the rest of the world has it. Yeah so you know it’s a whole different world and you know in a way it’s kind of good because there’s no mercenaries anymore. You’re not going into the business for money anymore, you’re making it for the fun and that’s what I do. And I love it.
One of the reasons why I’m back in the studio rather than pounding the pavement is that I love making them, I hate promoting them. So I figured, why bother. It’s out there. It’s on iTunes, Amazon all that sort of thing, but for me personally all I care about is making the next one.
HKC: When did you get started as a musician?
It started very early. I was young enough or maybe too young when Elvis hit. I was young enough to sort of know who Elvis was. When I was a kid my grandparents used to come to visit us. They’d spend a month with us every year. They’d come into the city on the train, into Grand Central Station.
This one time that we were dropping them off in February, We were driving through Manhattan and there was a commotion going on. My older brother said, “Stop the car I want to get out and see this” and of course I wanted to see it too. So I hop out with my brother we go around the corner and the block is packed with girls, young girls. We look up and sticking out of a hotel window are these couple of guys waving, you know with the mop tops and it was The Beatles.
As soon as they stuck their heads out the window, the whole block of girls just screamed. The energy was nothing short of a phenomenon. It was amazing and you know, once you get that energy in you. I followed The Beatles quite literally and started playing the guitar. I picked up a bass.
HKC: Now I thought what got you started was those screaming women. Speaking of energy, just being in the center of that, you thought maybe I should play an instrument.
Tom Gould: I can’t deny that. I was just 14 years old so I was beginning to understand that it would be a good thing as well. Yeah it was a lot of fun. It’s interesting because up until about a year ago there was I’d say 30 years that I went without not being booked. I had a gig for 30 straight years.
HKC: That’s very impressive as it just
Tom Gould: It’s just what I love to do I mean I love to get out and play. My first album was in 94, something like that.
HKC: That was the album “Eleven Eleven”. I love “Eleven Eleven”. It has the song “Jack Jack,” which is the storymabout Jack Nicholson I suppose.
Tom Gould: Which is interesting because you know the title “Eleven Eleven” came because when I was doing mixed downs and things I had a tape recorder. It was reel to reel back then but some of them had real-time counters that would count seconds and minutes and some of them just had a counter that had the numbers going. I noticed every time that I was working on this song, “Jack Jack,” the counter would say 11:11. It would either be 11 minutes 11 seconds or we just say Eleven Eleven and I just started seeing it everywhere.
When I was getting down to finishing the album I was at a studio in Centerport and we came out of the studio after a mix down and the wind was coming through the trees and it actually made a howling sound. You know you always heard that was a romantic thing. The wind began to howl and all that. I was standing out there actually hearing the howling so I got all excited and when I came home I tell my wife I got the name for the album, “Night of the Howling Wind,” and she looked at me and she said, “That is so pretentious.”
I said well we’re going to press in two weeks. What the heck! I don’t even have a name for the album. She goes why don’t you just call it Eleven Eleven? That’s all you’ve been talking about for the last year. And so I did and afterwards you know I found out that there were a lot of stories around Eleven Eleven and I didn’t realize somebody pointed it out just only a few years ago that “Jack Jack” which was the song that got this whole Eleven Eleven started is the 11th card in the disc. It’s deeper than you could have even imagined.
HKC: “Hard to Beat,” was your next album. That’s when I became a true fan to be honest with you. I heard “Hard to Beat,” and all the songs on there, “Red Johnny” and “Fingers in the Cake.” I said, okay well this guy’s got it. You also ended up releasing a French version of “Hard to Beat,” later on.
Tom Gould: That’s right it, when the Eleven Eleven album came out, I went into Bleecker Bob’s record store on in Greenwich Village and I walked in with the album and asked if they could you carry this in their store. He says, let me have it. He grabs it, opens it and he’s gonna to put it on and I’m all of a sudden thinking wait a minute. Because you look around the store back then it was all punk, razor blades and safety pins and I say you’re going to put on this cute little album and then you’re gonna throw me right the heck out of the store.
Anyway, he puts on the first song which was a very acoustic number and he looks right up and he goes, “You know who would love this? Skydog would love this!” He says I’ll give you his name Skydog who is Mark Zamartie from Paris. I sent it over to him. Since that album was already out he said, “When you work on the next album” which was “Hard to Beat” “send me the tapes.” So I sent him the pre-release of that and he licensed it and packaged it up and sold it in Europe.
I found out just a couple weeks ago, I had never seen the guy, never laid eyes on the guy, but I was reading Chrissy Hines book, “Reckless: My Life As A Pretender,” and in the book she talks about how he put her up before she became a Pretender. She was just sort of wandering about. She stayed with Mark Zamartie. There’s a picture of her with her arm around him and turns out that he’s the one that broke Lou Reed and Iggy Pop and a lot of the bands of that era came through him in Paris.
HKC: You had a couple of stories that you wanted to share specifically about Louisiana or something like that you’d mentioned to me before.
Well, we were talking about this train that came in that my grandparents used to come in on and it was called the 20th Century Limited. You would go down into Grand Central station; the steam and there would be the train with the sleeper cars and all of that sort of thing. They’d roll out this carpet and right next to it, it said 20th Century Limited. That train is actually cinematic.
Alfred Hitchcock used it in “North by Northwest.” I just saw a Fred Astaire movie the other night, he gets off the train in New York and it’s the 20th Century Limited. Back in the 90s when the 20th century really was limited I read a news article that they decided they weren’t going to name trains anymore. I thought, why would somebody just decide that?
HKC: It’s like a rule that somebody sat down and said, “We’re not naming names anymore. I guess It’s too painful when something happens to them.
Tom Gould: I said as long as they’re still naming songs I was going to call this one ,”The 20th Century Limited,” so I wrote a song somewhat of a train song about my experience with my grandparents and what led me to see the Beatlemania firsthand.
HKC: Great experiences lead to great artistic pieces. No matter what your medium is whether it’s painting or whether it’s television or music or whatever, it’s all about the experiences that you have and that’s the only way to stay true to yourself. It’s to be able to relive and put a piece of your experiences out there for others to appreciate.
Tom Gould: Would you want to hear the song “The 20th Century Limited”?
HKC: I would love to hear it. It’s a little greedy for me because this is one of my favorites that you do.
(Music and Singing)
HKC: You know it’s a lot of fun to have you down here and actually performing. We usually don’t get too many musicians in studio playing for us, so this is a treat for all of us. We’re enjoying this.
Tom Gould: I’m glad you’re enjoying it, I’m enjoying it as well. It’s fun having a band obviously and you get out and play but what I realize is, in the five years we were playing, we haven’t played a new song because getting a gig and then everybody’s busy so you don’t get to practice as much as you should and so when you do get together you just run through the material you know and you have the same 20 songs that you go out of the house with and play.
As a songwriter I’ve got notebooks filled with songs I’m just realizing I’ve got more songs then I’ve got time left. A lot of people say that, like going on tour and getting to perform your songs is great because you get to see the immediate reaction from it but unfortunately what you’re doing is you’re creatively stifling yourself because you don’t have the chance to be creative while you’re on the road. In fact Chrissie Hines said that in the book. She figured when I go out on the road that’s when I can write the next album but you get out on the road and it’s just not conducive to writing.
Writing is a whole, personal, lonely kind of off by yourself kind of thing and the party atmosphere of touring is not conducive to writing songs. Actually the original band, we were playing in Manhattan at a place called the Nightingale bar around the same time other bands like Blues Traveler, Spin Doctors, Joan Osborne and that group God Street Wine. We were calling ourselves Flyboys at that time largely because I had a band called the Rhythm Bandits. That was a first band and I felt that people were having trouble spelling rhythm, it’s a tough word, so I wanted to make it a little easier.
I found out that I share the same birthdate, day not date, as Charles Lindbergh and I thought that’s interesting you know he slapped together this wooden airplane and expected it to fly across the ocean I slap together a little band expected it to you know rule the world or whatever and so I figured why not call ourselves the Flyboys. So we were Flyboys for a while. While we were playing the Nightingale I heard somebody said, “There’s a band in San Diego that called themselves the Flyboys.”
They were doing pretty well so I figured okay we’ll change our name. We’ll call ourselves The San Diego Flyboys but that didn’t pan out. It was about this time that hip-hop started coming in and fly became an urban term so people thought that we were going to be a hip hop band.
The original lineup at this point, I was actually fronting the band. I wasn’t playing anything. This guy Eddie O’Rourke was on guitar and his brother Bob was on bass and George Fromundy was on drums. George has been with me to this day. This was early 90s around 92 I think. We were practicing one day, and Eddie and Bob O’Rourke, these guys were amazing. Still are, I’m sure. Bob’s in Italy and Eddie’ is in California to let you know how people spread out.
They used to just come out with these non sequiturs coming out of their head. Bob stepped up. We were about to do one of my songs in practice and Bob went up to the microphone he said, “And now for the Bossa Nova Beatnicks sound of Tom Gould,” and I looked at him and said, “Where the heck did that come from?”
I like Beatnick and Bossa Nova is the dance of love, you can’t go wrong. The name just stuck and we couldn’t get rid of it. We weren’t a Bossa Nova band. That’s another thing, we went from Flyboys where people are expecting us to be hip hop band and now being the Bossa Nova Beatnicks and people would come in with Salsa outfits on figuring that they’re going to salsa tonight. I’m sorry, my apologies to Joe Beam, but we’re more of a hybrid. If you look at the history of Bossa Nova, Bossa Nova became a hybrid between the Samba and The Blues.
I figured well, where we’re taking that hybrid idea a step further and we can bring in the beatnik, which focused on the lyrics and poetry of beatniks. It was always in the back of my mind that we can’t be calling ourselves Bossa Nova Beatnicks if we’re not doing Bossa Nova. At the time we were playing CBGB’s and the woman who did the bookings, a woman named Louise. I told her for now well call ourselves Bossa Nova Beatnicks, but we’re gonna come up with a new name.
She said, “No, you can change that name, it’s a great name. I figured well this lady has seen everything booking CBGB’s. She’s seen thousands of bands and I figured well you know she thinks it’s a great name who am I to argue. So, I’ve been living with it and you know in deference to the people of Brazil and Joe Beam and the Boss Nova movement. We do try to do something Bossa or Samba on at least one cut on each album.
Then again I don’t want to be labeled like i said I was a child of the Beatles and if you look at The Beatles albums, they’re doing country, they’re doing rock, Helter Skelter. They do everything and I thought, well that’s what you do. If you’re a songwriter you don’t say oh well I’m a reggae band so I have to make a reggae song. No I’m a musician, I’m a songwriter, I’m gonna write the song and if the song happens to be a reggae song it will be reggae. If it happens to be a country song it’ll be country.
Of course in today’s market the radio stations if you don’t…
HKC: If you don’t fit the niche, you’re not going to get it.
Like CD Baby covers my albums and when you submit an album they always say okay pick a genre that you’re in click on the box and I look at the hundred and fifty boxes, I don’t fit in any of them. That’s another reason why I have removed myself from the whole promotion and all that. I just want to make the music and let somebody else figure it out later on what it is.
HKC: Well, that’s the beauty of it and then you get discovered for certain things. We have over here (can you hold that up Wayne just towards that camera over there.) It’s called “Demon On Wheels” and 3 of Ton’s songs were featured.
Tom Gould: There’s a song called “Zantee Misfits” “Worlds Will Collide” and a song called “Bad Little Baby.”
HKC: So those three songs are on Demon Wheels which is an indie film and kind of fits into our normal format of things.
Tom Gould: That’s why I wanted to bring that in because I had watched the podcast and noticed that you’re primarily about films and I love films. This came out a year ago. I’m so proud of it. It’s about a guy who used to be a rum runner in the Catskill Mountains in the 70s or earlier. He had this Shelby Mustang. The cops couldn’t catch him. I’m sure they knew where he lived and stuff but they had to actually catch him and they never could and so it was something for all of them to do on a Saturday night.
It wasn’t safe or anything like that, but it tells the story when he stopped being a rum runner. He put the car in the garage and then he became a mechanic. He’s making his living but he got the urge to get the car back out again and so the movies about him rebuilding this car. Caroll Shelby who designed the Shelby Mustang is actually interviewed in the film and he died during the making of the film so this is the last interview with Carroll Shelby.
The documentary gets into the relationship with the guy’s wife who’s looking at the books and saying this car could bury us financially. It’s called “Demon on Wheels” and it’s a really cool documentary.
HKC: I’ll have to get a look. I honestly haven’t. I didn’t even know you were bringing that tonight.
Tom Gould: It’s my only copy so I’m not leaving it with you. No, no. I will find it I will dig it out, trust me.
HKC: A couple other things. You have this other album here which is Tommy Numbers and the Wildcats which is also you. It’s a series of covers that he did, “That’s Alright Mama” “Bossa Nova Baby” “Honey Don’t” “Ruby Baby” “Little sister.” Is that Stevie Ray Vaughn’s Little Sister?
Tom Gould: No, that’s Elvis’ Little Sister.
HKC: But these are just some of the songs that are on the CD. It’s not under the Bossa Nova Beatniks umbrella. Although it is you. Tom I gotta tell you, it’s been a pleasure having you here. This has been mind-blowing for me because I’ve been a fan for 20-something years.
Tom has a new album coming out. It’s called, “For the Fun.” Okay, Bossa Nova Beatniks, Tom Gould. Are you going to play us out with another song.
Tom Gould: Yeah, If you’ll join me.
HKC: I would love to.
Tom Gould: This is another cinematic song in a way. It was inspired by Groucho Marx. This one’s called, “I Gotta Run.” This is another one from the sequel to the Tommy Numbers album.
